I cannot even watch the scenes in movies or read them in fictional books. Bullying instantly makes me hyper-vigilant. I look forward to Dr. Amy Cuddy’s book and Bullies, Bystanders, and Bravehearts! She announced she was researching for this book at the same time I left a toxic workplace where I was being not only bullied, but harassed. I don’t want anyone to feel sorry for me. I share in case it may help another. I was always a very quiet and focused child, so I think people feared that and made up their own stories inside their heads of who I am or what I’ll do. My husband calls my grade school days “after-school special” as I was verbally abused & sometimes physically abused nearly daily. I’ve done some therapy which helped me reframe—“weird”, “quiet”, “snob”, and others were often used. What hurt the most throughout all my experiences are those that were spineless in defending me. Those I thought were friends or colleagues that I never expected the vitriol to come from. The rumors that were spread. Lies I believed for a long time.
I think anyone who stands out threatens the status quo/groupthink/order, so they try to beat you back into submission. It only made me more sensitive, compassionate, resilient, and wisdom. I’ve been told I’m an “old soul”, but what many don’t realize is I had been to hell and back several times before I reached double digits. I’m a survivor that has made mistakes and lives to share my lessons with others! Spin.
I sooo relate to this comment of yours “I was always a very quiet and focused child, so I think people feared that and made up their own stories inside their heads of who I am or what I’ll do”. I struggled with this in work settings where I was a quiet and focused manager who also spoke up when I thought something wasn’t right. I never trusted the “mob” mentality.
Were you cute and the others felt threatened by it in school? I’ve seen plenty of that. Of course, they won’t use that as the reason they bully but down inside it’s the real reason
"nothing a mob does is clean" hit me like a punch in the gut. Even people with best intentions, in a large and restive crowd, can succumb to the mob mentality. I have a severe aversion to cruelty of any kind and a mob is diffuse, anonymous cruelty without having to bear full responsibility for what you do. Terrible.
I'm extremely sensitive and so often I become agreeable just to people around me just so that I am not bullied. I've often realised people are nicer to me when they think I'm "less" than them .. as soon as I share any of my achievements , like the fact that I'm a ted x speaker or have written two books, there is always someone who starts making sarcastic comments and taunts and start pulling me down. I was bullied a lot in the corporate after I got early promotions. I am learning to not be afraid of these bullies and take a stand for myself -- but I find it really really hard and I sometimes wish the world was a better place and there was no bullies in the world .
If I don't have fear of bullying it would be so much easier for me to be my authentic self
You're not alone re your ardent wish for the world to be a better place!!
And I totally get making yourself seem "less than" as a safety strategy - and still I wonder if you can experiment, little by little, with expressing yourself and your achievements authentically - I bet you'll find that the price you have to pay is not as big as the one you pay for staying small/untrue to yourself.
We don’t hear much these days about the sheer beauty of the US Constitution, but I think it is amazing that such a document has ever been written, even if these days so many seem willing to chuck the whole thing away. It is very anti mob. Most of it reflects the framers awareness of mob rule, and is meant to guard against the tyranny of the majority. Instead the framers felt moved by each singular pinpoint of “being”, and crafted a bill of rights that they said were not given by majority force of mob rule, no, they found these rights to be a priory, inherent within “being” and inalienable. The first time I attempted to write a poem (and I did write it, the message was good even if the poem was poor), I wrote about becoming free of the force of orthodoxy. The scene in this poem is of a very large crowd, all hopping on one foot through a hot, dry, dusty desert. Why? Because “all were following, surely all can’t be wrong”. I remember a few lines: “But at the front of that crowd as I looked around, not a speck of truth was there to be found. Each followed another, but none knew the way. A whole crowd lost, for all were astray”. I’ll stick with the Constitution, free speech, due process, etc. It will have to be the force of your argument that wins the day, not violence, not intimidation.
"Nothing a mob does is clean." For me, that brought up an image of Jan. 6. A crowd spurred on by one vile man. How can so many people fall prey? How can so many move forward to harm the innocent based on the spewing of one vile individual? Where does reason, common sense, moral compass, individuality, hide in the mentality of a mob? An old question. I have never been able to thoughtlessly follow the leader. I have to listen, watch and make my own determination.
I’m not a big Trump supporter but I feel certain he was not the sole cause of Jan 6th. Those people there had been in groups on line building up their beliefs and distrust of the Government. They were already in that mindset when they gathered in person. It happens like this on the left and right online. I doubt I will ever join the right or the left. It will be independent until the grave. Saying all this Biden is not a nice guy. Even when younger and had a mind. His kids having drug problems is a result of chaos in their home. Trust me when I tell you this. My nephew is in treatment right now and I know his whole life story. Once a kid is brought to treatment the staff looks closer at the home they came from to see where they got set off. The parents are typically clueless to their evaluation
I can only imagine what losing my mother and sister in a terrible car accident would be like. Not to mention myself and my remaining brother being badly injured in that accident and having to recuperate in body, mind and spirit. Who knows how you or I would deal with that trauma. It is certainly not something to pass judgement on by people who are blessed to never have been through it.
I watched as my Grandson grew up in a world of bullies and “social mobs”. You see, he is different. He has epilepsy, was raised by a single mom without a father and this has made him vulnerable. He grew into a wonderful and sensitive young man. What they missed was his heart - a heart of caring - he would always put his spare change in the collection jars for various causes. “They need it more than me” was his mantra. They missed a curious and fun loving child with a wonderful sense of humor. They missed a friendship that he would have cherished and defended. They missed it all as they ignored, or bullied, or made fun of him. They missed the love of a family - his Mom and Grandparents filling the void. No, this young man will never be a part of the mob or cancel culture. This young man with such a sweet, giving soul is contributing to the world.
I re-stacked this with comments but want to leave them here too! I really enjoyed your thoughts and the poem. I want to share a story about my first experience with becoming aware of this sort of phenomenon:
Some of my first experiences in school (I started at the kindergarten level and skipped preschool) attuned me to this sort of fear.
In kindergarten one day we were all sitting in long rows of chairs waiting for the next activity to begin. A young boy from the row behind me got up to get something and as he came walking back he started bopping everyone in my row on the back of the head (sort of hard, the other kids said “OW” and were holding their heads afterward). I got furious with this behavior. I saw him coming along the whole row and when he got to me I ducked out of the bop, turned around and lightly tapped him on the head so he’d stop his path.
Well he did stop - but it was because I got put in the time-out chair in front of everyone. The teacher had no idea what had happened, and only turned around to see me tap his head. Everyone watched me cry in the chair in front of them. (And no, I’m not saying me tapping him back was the right thing to do - I was something like 6 years old)
And of course as you get older, you see so many more painful instances of what can happen in groups when people aren’t really looking at what’s happening, whether someone is in a position of authority over the group or not.
What little I remember of studying psychology in college from the Asch line experiments and other such research - it often only takes one person to say something, do something, or be comfortable with being uncomfortable, to start to change what is happening. The onus isn’t on any one individual person in a sense to change everything, but an individual does have the ability to affect things in small ways, and sometimes larger ways. I see it as a responsibility in line with my values, personally, to try to do so.
Sometimes even others who feel similarly will often back you up - once that seal of silence or inattention has been broken.
Also, this poem by Alastair Reid called "Curiosity" comes to mind. I really enjoyed it when I found it in college. Re-reading it now with much more perspective - sharing a small excerpt below:
Every Sunday, after cooking for the church, we have to clean the kitchen. Our boss always tells us to "evenly spread the dirt". I think that mobs tend to do that, and maybe that is why they are called mobs, in reminiscence of the word mop that sounds similar.
No. Not from me. Never.
Not a step in your march.
I have marched. I was pressured into marching in a so-called Jesus March against abortion–em, sorry, pro-life. It was terrible. This is why I adopted the above lines as my strategy without knowing them. I choose the path less trodden instead of marching in-step.
Superhuman with accusation
Looking back, I can bodily feel the privilege and superiority oozing from our pores. We set the moral standard. We looked down on them. We accused them.
The challenge is to stand firm against a moral wrong without being a moralizer. Abraham Lincoln managed to do that while standing against slavery. “With malice towards none”.
May I be a misfit, never one to jump on a bang wagon for the sake of belonging, for I hold truth to my heart's love, beauty, they say take the pills, change your perspective it won't be abuse, if you just blend in you will move up the ladder, just look away everyone else is doing it, etc. Lonely road can be hard but May I Stand Alone in my Free Thoughts, Love, Beauty, Dreams that love, hug, speak to a longing ache that define my Being Soul, May I fall In Love with a single flower blooming out of a sidewalk crack then a field of pamper roses... Being your Truth, yourself in a world of highly pressure social norms is tough, real tough but one day your real tribe, real family a real love will find you and that worth more than any pot of gold in my book... Beautiful Journey, Poetic Wanderer
This is seeking the safety of joining in or staying silent when seeing a wrong. If you stay silent long enough it becomes more dangerous to finally speak up. I haven’t studied the holocaust but I suspect that there was an opportunity to stop Hitler before he had his police state in position to kill his opposition.
I think there were plenty of opportunities, there are plenty of websites. Sadly, there are also websites that will try to deny what happened. That's where individual responsibility must come in, in a society that is free to research and free to examine our consciences based on basic civility, basic values, individuals are held responsible for what happens in our society. There's a very powerful line in the movie "Judgment at Nuremberg" where Spencer Tracy, an American judge, is speaking to a German judge found guilty of crimes against humanity for his role in the Holocaust. Played by Burt Lancaster, the judge, who unlike his co-defendants, admits his guilt, says to Spencer Tracy at the end of the film, "Judge Heywood, you have to believe, those people, those millions of people, I never knew it would come to that, you must believe that." And Tracy, looking old and sad says, "Herr Janning, it came to that the first time you sentenced a man to death you knew to be innocent." Again, in a free society, there IS freedom to argue guilt and innocence. But when the law is twisted to ensure that one part of society is privileged over another, when acts are carried out in plain view that we know to be abhorrent then, in a civil society, we need to protest within the means that our society has provided--freedom of speech, freedom of assembly--and make sure that those freedoms don't become license in the negative sense, to take away freedoms that others are lawfully exercising.
I remember that line from the movie. It was powerful. Doing wrong is a slippery slope.
But a little humility for me is in order here. It’s easy to pontificate from the safety of my couch. Would I stand against evil if doing so had a high cost like imprisonment, torture, or death? I honestly don’t know. After all, it’s difficult for me to stand against a moral wrong when simply faced with the wrath of a social network.
Amen, amen! I understand those people who committed suicide rather than be arrested and risk giving in to evil but that's another really hard choice! The way I am moving forward in these conundrums is that while I am in a place of safety I need to do what I can to model a civil society, a "safe" society for all human beings. Someone mentioned "do no harm"--that's a lofty ideal to have but that doesn't mean we shouldn't strive for doing no harm in thought, word and deed :) I am embarrassed to say that I have been a resident alien in the US for 26 years and not voted in anything although I had plenty of opinions. I recently stuck my neck out and applied for naturalization, interview is next month. Finally putting my money where my mouth is ;)
I recall hearing from Holocaust survivors that their Christian neighbors who were good friends turned their backs on them and joined in on the persecution of their Jewish neighbors once Hitler came to power. It’s shocking what people will do to be part of a mob. They do things they would never do if they were by themselves. There are theories as why this happens. It’s so sad but often part of human nature. Of course there were those good people who helped to hide the Jews but not a lot of them were willing to do this unfortunately.
Yes, I have heard that as well. I don’t know what they would have risked by helping. It was probably a combination of antisemitism and fear that motivated them.
“I learned your world order then” is my favorite. I,too, have felt revulsion at mob order and its organicity. As a former criminal defense attorney, I can say that individuals often do repulsive things in a group they would not undertake on their own. That is a beautiful poem. Thank you for sharing it.
For me this brought up feelings about the pandemic. The rhetoric was so strong about what we had to do. The decrees kept changing, and a lot of it didn't make any sense. Alternative points of view were suppressed, and there was no one to turn to for information about what was really going on. For me it was a big "no" against mob mentality trying to force me to do things that were potentially damaging and against my will.
When another one of those viruses comes. Talk to the people in your local hospitals and clinics. They will tell you the truth of what they are seeing and dealing with. The media is a lost cause. Joe Rogan has taken their power away by just using reason
Thank you, Cassandra. I thought of this too. I have never seen such a swift and massive agreement to do something so drastic with so little room for debate, discovery, and curiosity. If all the same actions had been taken but it felt lime there was room for varying perspectives, I might feel very differently. But it felt very unwelcome and dangerous to be uncerain, curious, questioning and that lack of room for dissent felt mob- like to be sure.
The dirty handprint of mobs killing and tormenting my ancestors has haunted me for as long as I can remember. As a child, often I wondered, would I have been defiant or would I have quickly surrendered to be the voiceless victim. Would I have been strong enough to be the rescuer, the survivor? In darker times, I chaffed that I too could have been a persecutor if the raging forces carried me away.
It was only when I read and reread Viktor Frankl I sensed there was a truth greater than my machinations--thinking hydrated and nurtured by my family, culture and the media. 'Never again' always seemed like a platitude that invited more trouble.
And now, collective acts of defiance seem to be using the old tools to no avail. Even civil disobedience has lost its teeth and is untethered. I am so very curious what will arise from these times--will a wholly new sort of defiance take form that is rooted in a new sort of listening? A listening that includes an awareness of what is not being said, what is only a murmur, a flutter of hope. This could be the time of great fracture and breaking as well as the most important time for new wholeness. (Thinking about our dearly missed Leonard Cohen.)
Thank you for a powerful comment. I am also wondering about a shift in protest and civil disobedience. I have read that during the 1960s civil rights movement, many protesters purposely practiced so as not to recreate the attitudes injustices they were protesting. That strikes me as the most meaningful way anyone could engage in civil protest. I wonder whether any current groups use this kind of practice .
I was struck by the line “moral cowardice holding skirts away”. It reminded me of Victorian ladies swishing down the streets of London, seeing the poor children sweeping horse dung off the streets, ragged, emaciated, and just not “seeing” them at all. Making sure their skirts didn’t touch the “dirt” while their husbands built a society that only exacerbated the divide between rich and poor, people who mattered and people who didn’t. Oh yes they did a few things, established moral societies and so-called charities” but it really was the start of this obsession with wealth and privilege, making sure that nothing “dirty” entered THEIR world. When we think of “mob” we often think of protesters but we never consider the unseen mob that’s created this situation. The linked groups across the world who, obsessed with power and violence, sit in their plush boardrooms and plot how to manipulate people.
What an amazing image re the swishing down the streets of London etc...I also think that the vast majority of people are good; have no wish to join a mob; and are not specially obsessed with power; but they're afraid to stand or speak out. I'm not sure whether anyone has ever measured how common a trait courage is in a typical population, but I suspect that it's not very common at all.
I cannot even watch the scenes in movies or read them in fictional books. Bullying instantly makes me hyper-vigilant. I look forward to Dr. Amy Cuddy’s book and Bullies, Bystanders, and Bravehearts! She announced she was researching for this book at the same time I left a toxic workplace where I was being not only bullied, but harassed. I don’t want anyone to feel sorry for me. I share in case it may help another. I was always a very quiet and focused child, so I think people feared that and made up their own stories inside their heads of who I am or what I’ll do. My husband calls my grade school days “after-school special” as I was verbally abused & sometimes physically abused nearly daily. I’ve done some therapy which helped me reframe—“weird”, “quiet”, “snob”, and others were often used. What hurt the most throughout all my experiences are those that were spineless in defending me. Those I thought were friends or colleagues that I never expected the vitriol to come from. The rumors that were spread. Lies I believed for a long time.
I think anyone who stands out threatens the status quo/groupthink/order, so they try to beat you back into submission. It only made me more sensitive, compassionate, resilient, and wisdom. I’ve been told I’m an “old soul”, but what many don’t realize is I had been to hell and back several times before I reached double digits. I’m a survivor that has made mistakes and lives to share my lessons with others! Spin.
Thank you for sharing your story, Kate. And - Amy is a dear friend - we'll def have her for a Candlelight Chat when her book comes out!
❤️that is so wonderful to read, Susan!! Thank you so much!
Hi Kate,
I sooo relate to this comment of yours “I was always a very quiet and focused child, so I think people feared that and made up their own stories inside their heads of who I am or what I’ll do”. I struggled with this in work settings where I was a quiet and focused manager who also spoke up when I thought something wasn’t right. I never trusted the “mob” mentality.
Thank you for your comment, Linda!!
Were you cute and the others felt threatened by it in school? I’ve seen plenty of that. Of course, they won’t use that as the reason they bully but down inside it’s the real reason
"nothing a mob does is clean" hit me like a punch in the gut. Even people with best intentions, in a large and restive crowd, can succumb to the mob mentality. I have a severe aversion to cruelty of any kind and a mob is diffuse, anonymous cruelty without having to bear full responsibility for what you do. Terrible.
I'm extremely sensitive and so often I become agreeable just to people around me just so that I am not bullied. I've often realised people are nicer to me when they think I'm "less" than them .. as soon as I share any of my achievements , like the fact that I'm a ted x speaker or have written two books, there is always someone who starts making sarcastic comments and taunts and start pulling me down. I was bullied a lot in the corporate after I got early promotions. I am learning to not be afraid of these bullies and take a stand for myself -- but I find it really really hard and I sometimes wish the world was a better place and there was no bullies in the world .
If I don't have fear of bullying it would be so much easier for me to be my authentic self
You're not alone re your ardent wish for the world to be a better place!!
And I totally get making yourself seem "less than" as a safety strategy - and still I wonder if you can experiment, little by little, with expressing yourself and your achievements authentically - I bet you'll find that the price you have to pay is not as big as the one you pay for staying small/untrue to yourself.
We don’t hear much these days about the sheer beauty of the US Constitution, but I think it is amazing that such a document has ever been written, even if these days so many seem willing to chuck the whole thing away. It is very anti mob. Most of it reflects the framers awareness of mob rule, and is meant to guard against the tyranny of the majority. Instead the framers felt moved by each singular pinpoint of “being”, and crafted a bill of rights that they said were not given by majority force of mob rule, no, they found these rights to be a priory, inherent within “being” and inalienable. The first time I attempted to write a poem (and I did write it, the message was good even if the poem was poor), I wrote about becoming free of the force of orthodoxy. The scene in this poem is of a very large crowd, all hopping on one foot through a hot, dry, dusty desert. Why? Because “all were following, surely all can’t be wrong”. I remember a few lines: “But at the front of that crowd as I looked around, not a speck of truth was there to be found. Each followed another, but none knew the way. A whole crowd lost, for all were astray”. I’ll stick with the Constitution, free speech, due process, etc. It will have to be the force of your argument that wins the day, not violence, not intimidation.
Very well said! It seems that now we have a tyranny of the minority.
"Nothing a mob does is clean." For me, that brought up an image of Jan. 6. A crowd spurred on by one vile man. How can so many people fall prey? How can so many move forward to harm the innocent based on the spewing of one vile individual? Where does reason, common sense, moral compass, individuality, hide in the mentality of a mob? An old question. I have never been able to thoughtlessly follow the leader. I have to listen, watch and make my own determination.
I’m not a big Trump supporter but I feel certain he was not the sole cause of Jan 6th. Those people there had been in groups on line building up their beliefs and distrust of the Government. They were already in that mindset when they gathered in person. It happens like this on the left and right online. I doubt I will ever join the right or the left. It will be independent until the grave. Saying all this Biden is not a nice guy. Even when younger and had a mind. His kids having drug problems is a result of chaos in their home. Trust me when I tell you this. My nephew is in treatment right now and I know his whole life story. Once a kid is brought to treatment the staff looks closer at the home they came from to see where they got set off. The parents are typically clueless to their evaluation
I can only imagine what losing my mother and sister in a terrible car accident would be like. Not to mention myself and my remaining brother being badly injured in that accident and having to recuperate in body, mind and spirit. Who knows how you or I would deal with that trauma. It is certainly not something to pass judgement on by people who are blessed to never have been through it.
Yes.
Reminds me of Robert Frost's poem, "Choose Something Like a Star" with the last lines:
"So when at times the mob is swayed
To carry praise or blame too far,
We may choose something like a star
To stay our minds on and be staid."
I watched as my Grandson grew up in a world of bullies and “social mobs”. You see, he is different. He has epilepsy, was raised by a single mom without a father and this has made him vulnerable. He grew into a wonderful and sensitive young man. What they missed was his heart - a heart of caring - he would always put his spare change in the collection jars for various causes. “They need it more than me” was his mantra. They missed a curious and fun loving child with a wonderful sense of humor. They missed a friendship that he would have cherished and defended. They missed it all as they ignored, or bullied, or made fun of him. They missed the love of a family - his Mom and Grandparents filling the void. No, this young man will never be a part of the mob or cancel culture. This young man with such a sweet, giving soul is contributing to the world.
Chills. And hugs to you and your amazing grandson.
I re-stacked this with comments but want to leave them here too! I really enjoyed your thoughts and the poem. I want to share a story about my first experience with becoming aware of this sort of phenomenon:
Some of my first experiences in school (I started at the kindergarten level and skipped preschool) attuned me to this sort of fear.
In kindergarten one day we were all sitting in long rows of chairs waiting for the next activity to begin. A young boy from the row behind me got up to get something and as he came walking back he started bopping everyone in my row on the back of the head (sort of hard, the other kids said “OW” and were holding their heads afterward). I got furious with this behavior. I saw him coming along the whole row and when he got to me I ducked out of the bop, turned around and lightly tapped him on the head so he’d stop his path.
Well he did stop - but it was because I got put in the time-out chair in front of everyone. The teacher had no idea what had happened, and only turned around to see me tap his head. Everyone watched me cry in the chair in front of them. (And no, I’m not saying me tapping him back was the right thing to do - I was something like 6 years old)
And of course as you get older, you see so many more painful instances of what can happen in groups when people aren’t really looking at what’s happening, whether someone is in a position of authority over the group or not.
What little I remember of studying psychology in college from the Asch line experiments and other such research - it often only takes one person to say something, do something, or be comfortable with being uncomfortable, to start to change what is happening. The onus isn’t on any one individual person in a sense to change everything, but an individual does have the ability to affect things in small ways, and sometimes larger ways. I see it as a responsibility in line with my values, personally, to try to do so.
Sometimes even others who feel similarly will often back you up - once that seal of silence or inattention has been broken.
Also, this poem by Alastair Reid called "Curiosity" comes to mind. I really enjoyed it when I found it in college. Re-reading it now with much more perspective - sharing a small excerpt below:
https://poetryarchive.org/poem/curiosity/
"[...] A cat minority of one
is all that can be counted on
to tell the truth. And what cats have to tell
on each return from hell
is this: that dying is what the living do,
that dying is what the loving do,
and that dead dogs are those who do not know
that dying is what, to live, each has to do."
What a story, Po.
I feel the same way. In part I think it's a desire for personal authenticity, which can't be achieved through "groupthink".
Nothing a mob does is clean
Every Sunday, after cooking for the church, we have to clean the kitchen. Our boss always tells us to "evenly spread the dirt". I think that mobs tend to do that, and maybe that is why they are called mobs, in reminiscence of the word mop that sounds similar.
No. Not from me. Never.
Not a step in your march.
I have marched. I was pressured into marching in a so-called Jesus March against abortion–em, sorry, pro-life. It was terrible. This is why I adopted the above lines as my strategy without knowing them. I choose the path less trodden instead of marching in-step.
Superhuman with accusation
Looking back, I can bodily feel the privilege and superiority oozing from our pores. We set the moral standard. We looked down on them. We accused them.
I regret.
No. Not from me. Never.
Not a step in your march.
The challenge is to stand firm against a moral wrong without being a moralizer. Abraham Lincoln managed to do that while standing against slavery. “With malice towards none”.
May I be a misfit, never one to jump on a bang wagon for the sake of belonging, for I hold truth to my heart's love, beauty, they say take the pills, change your perspective it won't be abuse, if you just blend in you will move up the ladder, just look away everyone else is doing it, etc. Lonely road can be hard but May I Stand Alone in my Free Thoughts, Love, Beauty, Dreams that love, hug, speak to a longing ache that define my Being Soul, May I fall In Love with a single flower blooming out of a sidewalk crack then a field of pamper roses... Being your Truth, yourself in a world of highly pressure social norms is tough, real tough but one day your real tribe, real family a real love will find you and that worth more than any pot of gold in my book... Beautiful Journey, Poetic Wanderer
“Aloof moral cowardice “
This is seeking the safety of joining in or staying silent when seeing a wrong. If you stay silent long enough it becomes more dangerous to finally speak up. I haven’t studied the holocaust but I suspect that there was an opportunity to stop Hitler before he had his police state in position to kill his opposition.
I think there were plenty of opportunities, there are plenty of websites. Sadly, there are also websites that will try to deny what happened. That's where individual responsibility must come in, in a society that is free to research and free to examine our consciences based on basic civility, basic values, individuals are held responsible for what happens in our society. There's a very powerful line in the movie "Judgment at Nuremberg" where Spencer Tracy, an American judge, is speaking to a German judge found guilty of crimes against humanity for his role in the Holocaust. Played by Burt Lancaster, the judge, who unlike his co-defendants, admits his guilt, says to Spencer Tracy at the end of the film, "Judge Heywood, you have to believe, those people, those millions of people, I never knew it would come to that, you must believe that." And Tracy, looking old and sad says, "Herr Janning, it came to that the first time you sentenced a man to death you knew to be innocent." Again, in a free society, there IS freedom to argue guilt and innocence. But when the law is twisted to ensure that one part of society is privileged over another, when acts are carried out in plain view that we know to be abhorrent then, in a civil society, we need to protest within the means that our society has provided--freedom of speech, freedom of assembly--and make sure that those freedoms don't become license in the negative sense, to take away freedoms that others are lawfully exercising.
I remember that line from the movie. It was powerful. Doing wrong is a slippery slope.
But a little humility for me is in order here. It’s easy to pontificate from the safety of my couch. Would I stand against evil if doing so had a high cost like imprisonment, torture, or death? I honestly don’t know. After all, it’s difficult for me to stand against a moral wrong when simply faced with the wrath of a social network.
Amen, amen! I understand those people who committed suicide rather than be arrested and risk giving in to evil but that's another really hard choice! The way I am moving forward in these conundrums is that while I am in a place of safety I need to do what I can to model a civil society, a "safe" society for all human beings. Someone mentioned "do no harm"--that's a lofty ideal to have but that doesn't mean we shouldn't strive for doing no harm in thought, word and deed :) I am embarrassed to say that I have been a resident alien in the US for 26 years and not voted in anything although I had plenty of opinions. I recently stuck my neck out and applied for naturalization, interview is next month. Finally putting my money where my mouth is ;)
Yes, do what we can where God has planted us. Pay attention to the early signs of moral failings, a sort of constant fine tuning.
Yes, I get that…
That’s very true!
I recall hearing from Holocaust survivors that their Christian neighbors who were good friends turned their backs on them and joined in on the persecution of their Jewish neighbors once Hitler came to power. It’s shocking what people will do to be part of a mob. They do things they would never do if they were by themselves. There are theories as why this happens. It’s so sad but often part of human nature. Of course there were those good people who helped to hide the Jews but not a lot of them were willing to do this unfortunately.
Yes, I have heard that as well. I don’t know what they would have risked by helping. It was probably a combination of antisemitism and fear that motivated them.
“I learned your world order then” is my favorite. I,too, have felt revulsion at mob order and its organicity. As a former criminal defense attorney, I can say that individuals often do repulsive things in a group they would not undertake on their own. That is a beautiful poem. Thank you for sharing it.
For me this brought up feelings about the pandemic. The rhetoric was so strong about what we had to do. The decrees kept changing, and a lot of it didn't make any sense. Alternative points of view were suppressed, and there was no one to turn to for information about what was really going on. For me it was a big "no" against mob mentality trying to force me to do things that were potentially damaging and against my will.
When another one of those viruses comes. Talk to the people in your local hospitals and clinics. They will tell you the truth of what they are seeing and dealing with. The media is a lost cause. Joe Rogan has taken their power away by just using reason
Thank you, Cassandra. I thought of this too. I have never seen such a swift and massive agreement to do something so drastic with so little room for debate, discovery, and curiosity. If all the same actions had been taken but it felt lime there was room for varying perspectives, I might feel very differently. But it felt very unwelcome and dangerous to be uncerain, curious, questioning and that lack of room for dissent felt mob- like to be sure.
The dirty handprint of mobs killing and tormenting my ancestors has haunted me for as long as I can remember. As a child, often I wondered, would I have been defiant or would I have quickly surrendered to be the voiceless victim. Would I have been strong enough to be the rescuer, the survivor? In darker times, I chaffed that I too could have been a persecutor if the raging forces carried me away.
It was only when I read and reread Viktor Frankl I sensed there was a truth greater than my machinations--thinking hydrated and nurtured by my family, culture and the media. 'Never again' always seemed like a platitude that invited more trouble.
And now, collective acts of defiance seem to be using the old tools to no avail. Even civil disobedience has lost its teeth and is untethered. I am so very curious what will arise from these times--will a wholly new sort of defiance take form that is rooted in a new sort of listening? A listening that includes an awareness of what is not being said, what is only a murmur, a flutter of hope. This could be the time of great fracture and breaking as well as the most important time for new wholeness. (Thinking about our dearly missed Leonard Cohen.)
Thank you for a powerful comment. I am also wondering about a shift in protest and civil disobedience. I have read that during the 1960s civil rights movement, many protesters purposely practiced so as not to recreate the attitudes injustices they were protesting. That strikes me as the most meaningful way anyone could engage in civil protest. I wonder whether any current groups use this kind of practice .
I read Viktor Frankl “Man’s Search for Meaning”, it was a great book! I learned a lot from it.
I was struck by the line “moral cowardice holding skirts away”. It reminded me of Victorian ladies swishing down the streets of London, seeing the poor children sweeping horse dung off the streets, ragged, emaciated, and just not “seeing” them at all. Making sure their skirts didn’t touch the “dirt” while their husbands built a society that only exacerbated the divide between rich and poor, people who mattered and people who didn’t. Oh yes they did a few things, established moral societies and so-called charities” but it really was the start of this obsession with wealth and privilege, making sure that nothing “dirty” entered THEIR world. When we think of “mob” we often think of protesters but we never consider the unseen mob that’s created this situation. The linked groups across the world who, obsessed with power and violence, sit in their plush boardrooms and plot how to manipulate people.
What an amazing image re the swishing down the streets of London etc...I also think that the vast majority of people are good; have no wish to join a mob; and are not specially obsessed with power; but they're afraid to stand or speak out. I'm not sure whether anyone has ever measured how common a trait courage is in a typical population, but I suspect that it's not very common at all.