It took a large part of my life to accept and settle into the idea that I will not be remembered in the end. When I was younger, I grappled with thoughts of my mother dying which, in turn, led me to thinking towards my own death. At 10 years old! Sheesh! But I thought I could outrun death with fame and became nearly obsessed with how I could never be forgotten. It seemed that the memory of me would make me immortal. But not anymore, thankfully. I have let it go. I like how a previous commenter spoke of the senses and allowing the universe to live through them. That seems to me the very core of what life is now. I find comfort somehow in knowing that someday my children will do something that reminds them of me. I am reminded of my mother’s laugh every time I laugh. I sound just like she used to! We are remembered in small ways sometimes and for me, in this moment right now, that is enough. Thank you Susan for lighting the flame with these reflections.
I think it’s human nature to feel you mattered, to leave an imprint behind. The challenge with this particular yearning is that it can take over our lives and overshadow was really matters.
When I was younger and more ambitious, I hoped I would find meaning by being a famous artist and musician. Turns out that finding meaning there did prove to be unattainable, both because I wanted to be famous without working too hard: ) and because, from what I hear, fame itself doesn't seem to be a source of real meaning. The chase was definitely great fun and I love to look back at my few 15 minutes of fame, but certainly the generations will not hold those little wins in memory.
A strange concept about life's meaning came to me not too long ago and has stuck with me--what if I thought of myself as a vehicle for the universe to experience its own creation? Pretty important job, right? Doing could be as simple as being very present and using my senses to give my attention to the people and things around me. When I step back from the day-to-day and practice this, I find there's a lot of joy and wonder and gratitude in it. That's pretty much all the meaning I need at this point in my life.
A beautiful poet, his words so simple yet profound. I think I spent a few decades grappling with meaning of life. I also struggled with the distance of most of my extended family. What could they have taught me? How might I have remembered them? What’s the point of life? What if I never have a grandchild?
Now, in reflection and after a number of close painful losses, I’ve given up the ‘chase’ in my thoughts for meaning. I believe if we do live fully as we can, our ancestors have been remembered somehow through influences we aren’t always aware of. Many stories told to me, photos of homes, paintings my mother’s cousin displayed in a gallery in another country, I’m sure have influenced my meaning.
When my dad died, my sister took my mom to the pharmacy he went to for years. The staff asked “how is David?” My sister told them he recently died, they all burst into tears. My sister said to me, “It was so moving, I am sure my pharmacist wouldn’t cry if someone told them I died.” He had no idea he was so loved. As each of us, we can’t know who we affect and influence…
Maybe your post Susan, and poem, is a great topic for the chat ..
For the vast majority of people, (my Lady of many decades' togetherness has said...) no one will remember us except those who knew us directly, but they, too, will pass, along with their already-fading memory of us. Only the "famous" will live on, and they, only indirectly.
Our only contributions to the ages are the changes we make in the world... the words we write that might survive, or the influences we have on our immediate descendants who might then pass on those influences, anonymously. We are all transient spots of flesh on the Pale Blue Dot.
RE: question 1 - much like the universal wisdom of Solomon. Personally, I don't have any biological children, a tribe or a clan at an individual or community level. I don't really have anything in life that people would remember me for from a legacy perspective.
Ecclesiastes 1:11 No one remembers the former generations, and even those yet to come will not be remembered by those who follow them.
I've never really thought that life itself, in general, had any meaning. About 3 decades ago a famous artist said in an interview that everyone had their own symbolism. At the time my thought was - that's ridiculousness! Decades and a world of experience later I was realize how wrong I was about that... I didn't know myself nor how to be alive in the world...
As an individual life has meaning. My life has meaning. I've read Leonard Cohen said his life was a liturgy if I remember right. My life is a grief and is defined by what I'm not than what I am; being in proximity to many demographics, groups & communities but not being part of them - an outsider... For example, I'm technically classified as a "Late Boomer" but I've never identified with anything Boomer related. I'm more of a Gen X person with a side order of millennials.
In the end the unexamined life is not worth living...
Regarding the unattainable meaning of life, I resonate with that beautiful poem and am reminded of the wisdom in the following quote
“ Be patient toward all that is unsolved in your heart and try to love the questions themselves, like locked rooms and like books that are now written in a very foreign tongue. Do not now seek the answers, which cannot be given you because you would not be able to live them. And the point is, to live everything. Live the questions now. Perhaps you will then gradually, without noticing it, live along some distant day into the answer.”
The first things I think of after reading your post, before reading comments are:
Here, now. This is it. Our experience is our own, but not necessarily our life.
Life is short - really a blink in all of time, and yet being fully present challenges the duality of clock and psychological time...allows us a gateway into unbound freedom, especially from form....an uncoupling from what we try to define as "meaning"
And yet the trying, the seeking, seems to fuel a sense of purpose in a world of form, where we strive for "groundedness" - literally, feeling the ground beneath us, when we can aspire to float and dance beyond it into the formless dimension
One of my guiding posts: You seek the person that is seeking
Not so different than the 3rd line of the poem, though the line is more fun!
As for your questions:
I think if we live our lives the best we can, always seeking, always journeying, always trying to remain fresh and open, opting out of all the acting - that is the message we leave behind. Whether we care if we are held in memory or if what we leave behind is noticed consciously (paradigm shift - what about the memory of the earth, the world, life itself?) seems highly individualized. If I care now (which implies a nod to future), I want it to be only for selfless reasons, for love, and nothing of ego. The answers will be individualized and personal.
I love the thought of the meaning of life being unattainable because to attain it implies we can define it, and I don't think we can, even if we think we can. I don't so much like the concept of "chasing" because the word seems to imply urgency to me, and I find myself leaning into words like seeking, contemplating, journeying, reflecting, dancing, etc.
If I dare to give my journey a vision in words, it would be to try to help and love all beings the best we can, always try to be kind, try to do no harm, take nothing for granted, and embrace and practice gratitude for life and all its beauty daily, even alongside its pain and and brevity.
I think this is a fine position for the industrial age. But as we transition to an age we’re we become more reliant on our creativity for our existence/survival, I think our attitude will/should change towards striving to create a memory. Something our progeny can be proud of and perhaps continue in our memory as well as theirs.
As for candlelight topic, we hear more and more about how we should “speak up” to confront abusers/bullies/tyrants. (A lot of thought leaders/consultants making bank 💵 on this.) Why can’t we just “speak normal” and expect our leaders to react and do the right thing?
"Waters close over us, a name lasts but an instant."
I would say instead that people last an instant, but a name can last for a long time. In a number of families, the same name or variations on it get used across generations and can hold very specific meanings for those families. This can be very positive (wanting the new generation to uphold/embody similar behaviours) or sometimes a regeneration of the past if maybe the person was very flawed, but still loved.
"Not important whether the generations hold us in memory.
Great was that chase with the hounds for the unattainable meaning of
the world.”
Here, I would say that the meaning of the world is actually whether the generations hold us in memory - not in terms of fame, but in terms of particular qualities. Again, sometimes this is about continuance of particular qualities and other times it’s about mindfully not repeating certain things.
But, “great was that chase with the hounds” definitely indicates how enjoyable life can be if you allow it to be.
Hi Susan, yes, I'm very okay to be forgotten when I move onto the next great adventure.
Meaning of life unattainable - hmmm ... I think I agree because for me it is all about intimacy with God and others. And yes, I absolutely love the chase but it's tremendously frustrating at times.
I'd love to join 'Just Us' on 17th but it'll be 3am in the morning where I am so I might have to catch up on the replay. But if there's a soccer game on TV on my Sunday night, maybe I'll stay up. 😘
I love Czeslaw Milosz, I love your prompts, Susan, I love reading all these thoughtful comments.
And… the idea that the meaning of life is unattainable? That the “chase” is what gives it greatness? That’s not quite how I see it.
For me, the meaning of my life is the story I choose to live on any given day, in any given season. If it starts to feel like a “chase,” I take it as a signal to stand still—and allow the most enlivening meaning to find me.
What is meaningful for me today?
In the face of so much suffering in the human family, I want to keep affirming that what I feel, what I heal, what I dare to believe—matters. That my personal healing feeds the collective healing of us all.
Thank you as always, Susan, for the invitation to reflect.
It took a large part of my life to accept and settle into the idea that I will not be remembered in the end. When I was younger, I grappled with thoughts of my mother dying which, in turn, led me to thinking towards my own death. At 10 years old! Sheesh! But I thought I could outrun death with fame and became nearly obsessed with how I could never be forgotten. It seemed that the memory of me would make me immortal. But not anymore, thankfully. I have let it go. I like how a previous commenter spoke of the senses and allowing the universe to live through them. That seems to me the very core of what life is now. I find comfort somehow in knowing that someday my children will do something that reminds them of me. I am reminded of my mother’s laugh every time I laugh. I sound just like she used to! We are remembered in small ways sometimes and for me, in this moment right now, that is enough. Thank you Susan for lighting the flame with these reflections.
I just read your post 'Where are your thin places?'. Would love to have a 'Just Us' conversation about the moments we entered them.
I think it’s human nature to feel you mattered, to leave an imprint behind. The challenge with this particular yearning is that it can take over our lives and overshadow was really matters.
I want to be remembered for what I loved and how my love of the natural world guided and formed my life.
The meaning of life is to make meaning in your life.
When I was younger and more ambitious, I hoped I would find meaning by being a famous artist and musician. Turns out that finding meaning there did prove to be unattainable, both because I wanted to be famous without working too hard: ) and because, from what I hear, fame itself doesn't seem to be a source of real meaning. The chase was definitely great fun and I love to look back at my few 15 minutes of fame, but certainly the generations will not hold those little wins in memory.
A strange concept about life's meaning came to me not too long ago and has stuck with me--what if I thought of myself as a vehicle for the universe to experience its own creation? Pretty important job, right? Doing could be as simple as being very present and using my senses to give my attention to the people and things around me. When I step back from the day-to-day and practice this, I find there's a lot of joy and wonder and gratitude in it. That's pretty much all the meaning I need at this point in my life.
A beautiful poet, his words so simple yet profound. I think I spent a few decades grappling with meaning of life. I also struggled with the distance of most of my extended family. What could they have taught me? How might I have remembered them? What’s the point of life? What if I never have a grandchild?
Now, in reflection and after a number of close painful losses, I’ve given up the ‘chase’ in my thoughts for meaning. I believe if we do live fully as we can, our ancestors have been remembered somehow through influences we aren’t always aware of. Many stories told to me, photos of homes, paintings my mother’s cousin displayed in a gallery in another country, I’m sure have influenced my meaning.
When my dad died, my sister took my mom to the pharmacy he went to for years. The staff asked “how is David?” My sister told them he recently died, they all burst into tears. My sister said to me, “It was so moving, I am sure my pharmacist wouldn’t cry if someone told them I died.” He had no idea he was so loved. As each of us, we can’t know who we affect and influence…
Maybe your post Susan, and poem, is a great topic for the chat ..
For the vast majority of people, (my Lady of many decades' togetherness has said...) no one will remember us except those who knew us directly, but they, too, will pass, along with their already-fading memory of us. Only the "famous" will live on, and they, only indirectly.
Our only contributions to the ages are the changes we make in the world... the words we write that might survive, or the influences we have on our immediate descendants who might then pass on those influences, anonymously. We are all transient spots of flesh on the Pale Blue Dot.
RE: question 1 - much like the universal wisdom of Solomon. Personally, I don't have any biological children, a tribe or a clan at an individual or community level. I don't really have anything in life that people would remember me for from a legacy perspective.
Ecclesiastes 1:11 No one remembers the former generations, and even those yet to come will not be remembered by those who follow them.
I've never really thought that life itself, in general, had any meaning. About 3 decades ago a famous artist said in an interview that everyone had their own symbolism. At the time my thought was - that's ridiculousness! Decades and a world of experience later I was realize how wrong I was about that... I didn't know myself nor how to be alive in the world...
As an individual life has meaning. My life has meaning. I've read Leonard Cohen said his life was a liturgy if I remember right. My life is a grief and is defined by what I'm not than what I am; being in proximity to many demographics, groups & communities but not being part of them - an outsider... For example, I'm technically classified as a "Late Boomer" but I've never identified with anything Boomer related. I'm more of a Gen X person with a side order of millennials.
In the end the unexamined life is not worth living...
and what if I am not remembered
by anyone?
that blessing,
failing to launch
a spiritual tethering
to my existence.
what then, but my absolute
immersion in
here and now.
Regarding the unattainable meaning of life, I resonate with that beautiful poem and am reminded of the wisdom in the following quote
“ Be patient toward all that is unsolved in your heart and try to love the questions themselves, like locked rooms and like books that are now written in a very foreign tongue. Do not now seek the answers, which cannot be given you because you would not be able to live them. And the point is, to live everything. Live the questions now. Perhaps you will then gradually, without noticing it, live along some distant day into the answer.”
Rainer Maria Rilke
Spectacular poem and art. Thank you for sharing.
The first things I think of after reading your post, before reading comments are:
Here, now. This is it. Our experience is our own, but not necessarily our life.
Life is short - really a blink in all of time, and yet being fully present challenges the duality of clock and psychological time...allows us a gateway into unbound freedom, especially from form....an uncoupling from what we try to define as "meaning"
And yet the trying, the seeking, seems to fuel a sense of purpose in a world of form, where we strive for "groundedness" - literally, feeling the ground beneath us, when we can aspire to float and dance beyond it into the formless dimension
One of my guiding posts: You seek the person that is seeking
Not so different than the 3rd line of the poem, though the line is more fun!
As for your questions:
I think if we live our lives the best we can, always seeking, always journeying, always trying to remain fresh and open, opting out of all the acting - that is the message we leave behind. Whether we care if we are held in memory or if what we leave behind is noticed consciously (paradigm shift - what about the memory of the earth, the world, life itself?) seems highly individualized. If I care now (which implies a nod to future), I want it to be only for selfless reasons, for love, and nothing of ego. The answers will be individualized and personal.
I love the thought of the meaning of life being unattainable because to attain it implies we can define it, and I don't think we can, even if we think we can. I don't so much like the concept of "chasing" because the word seems to imply urgency to me, and I find myself leaning into words like seeking, contemplating, journeying, reflecting, dancing, etc.
If I dare to give my journey a vision in words, it would be to try to help and love all beings the best we can, always try to be kind, try to do no harm, take nothing for granted, and embrace and practice gratitude for life and all its beauty daily, even alongside its pain and and brevity.
"Not important whether the generations hold us in memory.
Great was that chase with the hounds for the unattainable meaning of
the world.”
I think this is a fine position for the industrial age. But as we transition to an age we’re we become more reliant on our creativity for our existence/survival, I think our attitude will/should change towards striving to create a memory. Something our progeny can be proud of and perhaps continue in our memory as well as theirs.
As for candlelight topic, we hear more and more about how we should “speak up” to confront abusers/bullies/tyrants. (A lot of thought leaders/consultants making bank 💵 on this.) Why can’t we just “speak normal” and expect our leaders to react and do the right thing?
"Waters close over us, a name lasts but an instant."
I would say instead that people last an instant, but a name can last for a long time. In a number of families, the same name or variations on it get used across generations and can hold very specific meanings for those families. This can be very positive (wanting the new generation to uphold/embody similar behaviours) or sometimes a regeneration of the past if maybe the person was very flawed, but still loved.
"Not important whether the generations hold us in memory.
Great was that chase with the hounds for the unattainable meaning of
the world.”
Here, I would say that the meaning of the world is actually whether the generations hold us in memory - not in terms of fame, but in terms of particular qualities. Again, sometimes this is about continuance of particular qualities and other times it’s about mindfully not repeating certain things.
But, “great was that chase with the hounds” definitely indicates how enjoyable life can be if you allow it to be.
Hi Susan, yes, I'm very okay to be forgotten when I move onto the next great adventure.
Meaning of life unattainable - hmmm ... I think I agree because for me it is all about intimacy with God and others. And yes, I absolutely love the chase but it's tremendously frustrating at times.
I'd love to join 'Just Us' on 17th but it'll be 3am in the morning where I am so I might have to catch up on the replay. But if there's a soccer game on TV on my Sunday night, maybe I'll stay up. 😘
Big love x
I believe that I am
At a stage of life
Where I am allowed
To own my personal expectations
For the rest of my time without
Interference from my past guides
Kirk Catinna
I love Czeslaw Milosz, I love your prompts, Susan, I love reading all these thoughtful comments.
And… the idea that the meaning of life is unattainable? That the “chase” is what gives it greatness? That’s not quite how I see it.
For me, the meaning of my life is the story I choose to live on any given day, in any given season. If it starts to feel like a “chase,” I take it as a signal to stand still—and allow the most enlivening meaning to find me.
What is meaningful for me today?
In the face of so much suffering in the human family, I want to keep affirming that what I feel, what I heal, what I dare to believe—matters. That my personal healing feeds the collective healing of us all.
Thank you as always, Susan, for the invitation to reflect.